5G Talent Talk with Carrie Charles (00:00)
Thanks for joining me today on 5G Talent Talk. I'm Carrie Charles your host, and I am glad you are here. We have an exciting episode. All of them are exciting, but I think this one is going to be something very special. So I have with me today, Jim Tracy. He is the co -founder of Legacy Telecommunications. He is a speaker and author, is founder and president of the Tower Family Foundation, which we're going to hear about in a few minutes.

He is the former chairman of the board at NATE and he is an executive advisor to Ontivity. Jim, thank you for joining me today. I'm so happy you're here. Wow. I feel like I've arrived. I finally made the 5G talent talk with Carrie Charles I'm so honored you can't even imagine. you're having me. Now you're making me blush.

So Jim, I've had the pleasure of talking to you a little bit before the podcast and I've followed you and I'd love to hear though about more about your story, your background, you know, not just in telecom, but just, you know, just overall, because I find it very fascinating. All right. Well, rural kid from a small town with a large family and I graduated from high school. I went up to Northern Minnesota. I started, I was a welder, started climbing towers.

as a welder and then I launched it. I actually met my wife and I said, hey, I'd like to marry your daughter. My father -in -law said, where are you going to school? I'm like, anywhere you want, sir. If that's the price of admission, I'm buying. And so finished up with school, I had a long career in manufacturing engineered wood products. And then my kid came home one night and he was 17. He said, hey,

You used to climb towers. I used to climb towers or I'm going to climb towers. yeah, it was crazy cause I went out to his job site and I thought he's going to die here at this job site. So at that point he said, Hey, if you think you're so smart, let's do it together. And that was in 1999. what a beautiful story. So let's talk more about legacy and you know, the growth you experienced, how, how did you,

How did you experience such growth? I guess I want you to share some secrets really. Okay. Well, number one, we didn't do it what people would call the normal way. We didn't have, we weren't smart enough to go to a bank and get leverage. We did it by saving and not spending. And when people came to us and they said, Hey, what is your capex budget? I said, what is that? And they said, how do you budget to buy a new truck? I said, I asked my wife to look at the checking account.

So I'm starting with two of us. And at the end of 20 -some years, we had almost 200 people, and we were operating at the Pacific Telecom corporate headquarters. Wireline died and was replaced by wireless, so it was awesome. We have a state -of -the -art headquarters with four locations up in the Northwest. And so it has been a ride in the American dream mobile.

That's what it's bad. And I, I'm just blessed to be part of it. You know, I love the way you said, you know, the good old fashioned way, right? Because I think as, you know, just tech, the technological advances and, and, you know, it's always like new best, more efficiency efficiency. But you know, there's still some things that just work the way that they used to work. Right. Yeah. Well, I remember one time when we were sitting down at the kitchen table and.

We were looking at our growth and my partner said to me, my son said to me, he said, hey, we're not like growing fast enough and what do we do? But we were on a path that gave us 15 % growth with 15 % earnings every year. It was just boring. Keep going, don't stop, let it up. And at the end of the day, it has provided, I mean, when people ask me what I do, I'm...

I'm like the guy I turn people into taxpayers and homeowners and I did so because of wireless. Wireless has been has been responsible for all of this. So. So you have another name. OK. And Grampion. We won't talk about all of them. OK. Keep it PG. A lovely show. Yes. Yes. But the Grampion. How did you get that name? Where did it come from?

So I have five kids and 14 grandkids, so why with my wife Sarah, and one of my grandsons, Wesley, we were playing a card game out at the lake and he's like, you are no longer a champion. And I'm like, it is me, what are you talking about? He said, well, you're no longer a grandpa either. And I'm like, wait a minute, this is like you're going too far. And he said, you are now the Grampion. And it stuck. And so my grandkids call me Grampion and it has just really resonated. And it really,

That really led into the way that we talk to people about the different generations and the harmony that we should have rather than the discord. Yes, and that's what you speak about many times, right? Part of your platform is that, you know, the divide between the generations. And I want to talk to you about that a bit because it's obviously it's very, I'm very passionate about this subject as well. But you know, there is this, I think, what is there like five generations in the workforce now?

and there's generational conflict and you know, you know, we have views and perceptions of certain generations. And then you had mentioned to me that there is a culture fix so desperately needed in our, in our companies now. So I'd like for you to, you know, expand on that and, and talk about what that culture fix is. Well, typically that's a part of my.

Keynotes or my master class or something like that. But I can tell you the biggest single problem, and that's the one that I point out to everybody when I talk. We have different ways of communicating. And so we are called, especially the people in the older set and especially the people in the younger set, we're called to be generous listeners. And they're like, well, what does that look like? Well, you listen with your ears and you listen with your

eyes and you listen with your mouth by keeping it shut and then you don't listen with your phone in your hand, turn it upside down, turn it off, get rid of this thing because when I talk to the youth they're like, well you guys are worse at it than we are and they're pretty accurate in that sometimes. So I think that if you look at what we're doing that we need to change because I love

the element that brings change to the table. Don't formulate an answer while someone is still asking a question. Don't solve a problem or come up with a fix when someone's not finished yet. Don't, there's a fellow by the name of Mark Vinson, he wrote a book called Process Consulting and he said, listen actively and comprehensively. Listen conceptually and contextually. Listen architecturally and listen adaptively. And so when you do a deep dive into that,

It's really just generous listening, like let them get it all out and then let's work together to make sure that we can come up with an appropriate response that works for both of us. Wow. What you just said is gold. It really, really is. So, so then with the generations and the listening, right? Are you, you know, what is it that is getting in the way of let's say,

you know, my generation, I'm, I guess I would be Gen X, you know, with my generation really understanding millennials and Gen Z and not only that, but empowering them and, you know, trusting them and, and, you know, having a positive perception that they are, you know, they're our future leaders. I mean, what, what is blocking all of that? Because there is, there's an issue right now. Well, number one, I think that we have lost a lot.

in translation between the generations. I talk about my grandpa a lot and he was born in 1903. I have a great grandpa who was born before then who I spent a lot of time with too. And when I think about the way that they approached their workspace, I mean, my great grandpa came across Ellis Island and changed his name so he wouldn't be just another Irish slave. And so when they look at the way that they taught people,

They said, hey, do it this way. And then if the person didn't do it that way, they would kind of smirk and smile. They would say, well, that's probably going to hurt. And they would let people stub their toe. And we are now in a situation where everybody beyond the X's is not allowed to stub a toe, is not allowed to not get a trophy, is not allowed to make a mistake. And mistakes are the tuition that we pay. Mistakes are our...

Mistakes are wonderful even in our business of legacy. That's one of the the secret sauce things. We're like, I hope you don't do that again I'm not gonna I'm not gonna beat you up over something you already feel terrible about But what I'm gonna do is say hey, let's how do we how we prevent that from happening again? Because that probably hurts and I think that's a big part of it and coming from I'm so I'm a boomer and so I love the X's now the X's are going wow

my parents were right about a couple of things. Yeah. And that didn't happen at first. You are so right about that. And, you know, with, if I, let's say as an employer, what do I need to do differently to, let's say attract and retain more of, you know, what attracted, retain the younger generation, like really,

Bring it down to what can I do differently? A leader listening to this podcast, what's maybe one or two things that I can do? Yeah. Well, step one is retain. Because the easiest best employees that you have are not on the street, they're in your building. And so, and the easiest way to retain them, I mean, people, I get a lot of shock looks from this. Love them. Love them. Talk to them. Ask about them. Know their name.

and know their struggles and go down and spend time on the floor with them, the ivory tower doesn't exist anymore. The ivory tower is on fire. The people who are up there don't even know it yet. And the reason it is is because this new set of folks is a generation of smart tech wizard entrepreneurs that are going to come and they're now outnumbering us. So if we don't come up with the proper

way to build a relationship and then show them we respect them, we deserve to have the fire department called because we need to be replaced. I love that. Now you said intrapreneurs and I really want to make that distinction because you're so right in their independence, their desire for a voice and their desire for meaning and purpose and their ideas and they want to share their ideas. So I thought that actually really resonated with me.

entrepreneur. Not only that, they are especially on the inside, they are so coachable. They're okay. My generation, like we went in and if we asked for help with something, that was a sign of weakness. And now when you go in and ask for help with something, that's a sign of, wow, this is something that we can avoid together. This tragedy that's about to befall us because someone made a big mistake is incredibly

opportunistic and we have to capitalize on it. Yes, couldn't agree more. Let's talk a little bit about age discrimination. I know just even in telecom right now and you're just discriminating against me. Yes, I know you're right. You're right. I'm I'm old. I'm in. I'm 56. See you say I can I can say this stuff. No.

I'm eligible for social security in two months. So there we go. okay. All right. Well, you've been paying me folks. I really appreciate it. Yes, exactly. my gosh. but so like I was, we're seeing, you know, a lot of layoffs and wire lettuce right now. And actually really last year there's, there's a lot of people that come to us in staffing and you know, they're in their, you know, fifties and sixties and

you know, they're really having trouble getting another job. And, you know, we even have sometimes employers, you know, confidentially will talk to us and say, look, we just want, you know, someone with a long runway, you know, in another word, saying a young person, right? So, I mean, age, that's, you know, I guess it's real, right? So how, you know, is there anything that we can do?

differently to, you know, to, I guess, transform this or to help leaders to really see the experience and the wisdom and where we all need to fit in in order to continue to make their companies great. Like, how do we solve for this? Absolutely. There are so many ways. And the first one is stop letting HR run your business. Stop letting legal run your business. When you think about a long runway, what's the average duration of an employee at your place today?

Five years on the outside? So a long runway now has a new definition. I mean, I've got folks that have been working for us for over 20 years. They are more treasured now than they were yesterday, and they're going to be more treasured tomorrow than they were today. And the reason is, is they've learned all those hard lessons. They've paid the tuition that cost them money, cost the company money, cost me money. It's always, it's always

better to have someone who just kind of shrugs and says, well, last time when we did it, we found out that. And companies in particular are not recognizing that we have a decreasing abundance of labor force. It's decreasing. The sheer numbers are. And we have an increasing age of the workforce. So you better do a little reset on what you're thinking about the prime candidate looks like, because the experience levels are also

circle in the drain because we've got new people who don't know what it's like to flip open a phone and text with a single keyboard. And we've already been there, we've already done that, might not go back there, but still those kind of technological lessons came the hard way. But the most interesting and the most fascinating thing that I think I see is the folks who have a really, really long runway left.

They want to be coached and they want to be coached by someone who actually knows, who's actually done it, who's been there before and can craft a future for them because they don't want to make mistakes. And they are smart. I'm so excited by the not by the Y's and the Z's and the Alphas now. I mean, and we're now, I mean, people my age, we are now dinosaurs. But guess what?

They're coming to me, I've got CEOs in their oneys and even thirties who are coming to me and saying, hey, will you come and spend a half an hour a week with me? And they're willing to create value there. And I'm thinking, well, why would you want to talk to me? And they're like, well, we just want to learn the lessons that you learned back in the seventies and the eighties and the nineties and the two thousands and the tens, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So.

As companies, we have to embrace the idea of the decreasing number and decreasing experience level and increasing age of our workforce, because if we don't, we're going to be bit by it. So let me ask you another question, with it a bit. What can we do in our 50s and 60s to stay relevant, to continue to improve our skills? We have somebody who works for us who

you know, is in that age range and she has just been incredible about up leveling her skills. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's been, it's been mind blowing really to see what she's been able to learn and how she's grown because she's taken it on that, look, I am not going to be irrelevant. I'm not going to be replaced by technology. And so she's really up leveled. So what can, you know, what do we need to do to take responsibility for this and say, all right, I need to.

let's say, up level or learn something new. Yeah. Well, number one, give them freedom and make a mistake. Because just like young people, old people make mistakes and then make them responsible for their own intrapreneurship. An entrepreneur inside an organization that knows how to hustle is never going to be stopped. So we have to encourage and embrace and somehow

have them incentivized to continue the hustle, because that's what it is. I mean, if you look at people who are successful, what do they all have in common? The one trait they all have in common, well that person, they really hustle. I love that. A word for this year is grit. And I just love, I love that word hustle. It's still a thing. Yes, I'm hustling right now all over the country. Well, I'm following you when you're like...

You're in a different city every day, every weekend. You're doing a podcast. I mean, a lot of people, you know, I met a guy and he said, I said, so what do you do? He said, well, I'm a, I'm a CEO of a major telecom firm. And I'm like, what does your day look like? He said, well, I'm a solid nine to five. And I'm like, you won't be around long. Cause this is a five to nine job, not a nine to five job. Yes. Yes. my gosh. So true. so true.

I want to hear more about the Tower Family Foundation and I just think this is such an important organization and we really need more of the world to know about it. Yeah, well we, back in the day, had OSHA kind of say, listen, you need to do something about tower safety. And as Nate, we did a wonderful job of saying people, times are changing, we all tie it up. Get jump on board or get out.

Unfortunately, during that timeframe, we had a lot of fatalities and we actually had an employer come to us at NATE and say, hey, my lawyer told me I can't do anything to help this family because it would be some sort of an admission of guilt. So we started what I kind of refer to as kind of the first GoFundMe in the tower biz. And we said, hey, you know what, you're right. Follow your lawyer's advice, but we will help. A bunch of ...

of tower contractors threw some money in a hat and we helped that family. And by virtue of a benefactor in California and some more folks who wanted to put their elbow grease into it, we formed a tower family foundation which cares for the families of afflicted or seriously injured or deceased tower workers. And we do so in seven days. And now we've put together a scholarship. We have both a merit scholarship and a need scholarship.

which, well, you get the scoop because it's gonna be press release like next week or even this morning, I don't know. And anyway, if you look at the earmark behind me, it's like, this is the best thing that I've ever done in my career because we're proving we'll take care of our workforce. We're proving it by what we do. All volunteer is awesome. Wow. What is the website for those who want to learn more about the Tower Family Foundation?

That's it. Tower family foundation .org. Done. Okay, good. Yes, please, please go contribute, make a difference, get involved. fantastic, fantastic mission. So Jim, tell me about your book. Okay. well, I have some exciting news. There's two of them. the first one, the second one has been, we're in final contract negotiations, but the first one is called building men. And it's just to look back at the stories of, of the men.

who actually influenced me by spending time with me that they didn't have to. And it's called Building Men. It's being published by Madison James out of New York. We're in editing right now. It's a terribly painful process. It takes forever. And the second one is, I got to give a tip a cap to, the title came from Eric Chase of Ontivity. It's called Management by Cliche. And it's these little glimpse life lessons about how we build, what we build, and their...

and they're longstanding truths that have been forgotten. And sometimes they're, they're, my staff calls them legionisms, they're called legacisms, they're called chasisms. So, and that's been, that's been accepted pretty much for publishing. And then they want to produce a masterclass to follow up on that because those lessons are so pointed. And you want a podcast too. What is the name of that podcast? The Grampion

Go find it on YouTube. Hey, subscribe. When do you get a chance? Subscribe on YouTube. We have a lot of fun. It's Grandpa Chats with Champions. And why don't you come on up? We're going to put you on that because you are a heading measure at Champions. Well, thank you. What would we call me as a grandma champion? Or what would that look like? Gramion. Gramion. Gramion Thank you. I'm honored. I would definitely love to come on your podcast. You could be a grandmian too.

Okay, that's great. So so Jim, how can how can you be reached for speaking? How many do you do speaking engagements throughout the country? Do you go like what type of speaking engagements? Do you do you typically do you know I do keynotes I do classes I've got and I'm so it's really weird I got an advertising company that just called me and they said hey when you put together content for five one -hour Masterclass sessions for some like I'm a knuckle -dragging tower guy. What they're like no I

We want you, we've seen you on stage. So the best way to get a hold of me is on my website, thejimtracy .com and there's also thegrampion .com. So we'd love to be able to reach out and do keynotes. I love the stage. I never met a microphone I didn't like. But mostly I like to make event producers grilled that they hired me because I brought something of value to their people.

So I have to go back a little bit because I want to hear one of your Jim -isms. Just something that's dear to your heart that you could leave the audience with. All right. So back in the day, we had one crew and we got seven colos awarded to us on a single day. And we had to decide how we were going to divvy these up and get them done. And this is all hands on deck. You got

You got five people in the field, two people in the office. Well, now we got seven people in the field. And they needed guidance when Ryan and I were doing it. So now we brought one large crew into three small crews and they needed guidance. And they said, hey, man, I mean, what are we going to do to make this so the customer loves it? And I said, okay, so we don't want the customer to love it. We want the customer to be delighted. And the only way to delight the customer,

is to have a standard that's higher than theirs. So here's our standard. Perfect is good enough. And so perfect is good enough became a gemism and it solved a lot of problems because we've had a lot of legacy and a lot the rest of the Antimony Company. We've had a lot of zero punch site watch. Well, I tell you what, that really changes the conversation when you say I want to delight the customer.

I mean, it's way different than satisfy. It's way different than meet your needs. And it takes it to a whole other level, right? And it bridges the gap of time because that person who you just built a delightful site for is gonna change hats. And the hats gonna be a different color for a different carrier or a different outfit. And he's gonna come back and he's gonna say, who is it that's gonna save my job next week?

I remember those guys. He doesn't remember Jim, he remembers the crew that made him or her delighted. Yes, absolutely. Jim, thank you for coming on the show. This has been delightful, truly. And I really appreciate it. I'm super excited that we connected. All right. Thank you so much. And I appreciate, again, being on 5G Talent Talk, folks. I have now arrived.

That is great. I'm excited. Yeah, not excited to be on your podcast to the brand. Yes, take care. Thank you.