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Thanks for joining me today on 5G Talent Talk. I'm Carrie Charles, your host, and I am so happy to have with me today Patrick Halley. He is the president and CEO of the Wireless Infrastructure Association. Patrick, thanks for joining me today. Thank you, Carrie. It's a pleasure to be here with you today.

Yes, yes. So first, let's start by just learning more about you, about, you know, your journey. How did you get to where you are today? I know you have a couple of stories in there that you might you might tell us. Yeah, so unfortunately, I got here by by accident, which is what I find to be the case for a lot of the people in the telecommunications and wireless infrastructure world, which we can probably talk about later.

I had an internship my senior year in college. I thought I was going to go do some international economics thing in the World Bank or something and had an internship at a organization that represented wireless carriers and telematics companies. And the big issue that I worked on to get me started in my career was public safety communications and wireless E911. So this is back in the late 90s when we were trying to figure out how to locate people when they called 911. It was a really interesting issue and that's kind of how I got my start.

So internships matter then, right? Internships definitely matter. I didn't even know about this whole world of telecommunications and it kind of sparked my interest in communications generally. Ultimately, it sparked my interest in going to law school to focus on telecom law. I am a telecommunications lawyer by training. And from there, I went off and ran government affairs for the National 911 Association. So, which was a great job for somebody new in the industry because it was working with the Hill, the FCC, the Department of Homeland Security.

all segments of the communication sector who had 911 and public safety communications issues really got great exposure to the whole world of public policy and telecom and that was a really great start. Sounds like you're a perfect fit. So I want to learn more about, I know there's probably the majority of people who are listening to this really know who the Wireless Infrastructure Association is, but for those who don't, please give us an introduction.

The Wireless Infrastructure Association is the national organization that represents those businesses that build, develop, and operate the nation's wireless infrastructure. We advocate for the widespread and responsible deployment of wireless infrastructure to enable connectivity everywhere. And that's connectivity for every person, every organization, everything, everywhere. That's our mantra, connectivity everywhere.

I like to think of us as a pretty big tent organization. There are a lot of different aspects of wireless infrastructure that enable us to communicate wherever we are, how we want to communicate. Obviously that starts with the wireless infrastructure from the macro towers, right? And all those radios and antennas and sites on top of rooftops and water towers. But a lot of our members are building and deploying fiber, right? Which every one of the small cells that are out there or radios that are connected on a tower all need.

fiber optic connectivity too. Some of our members are in the data center business, right? If you're accessing the internet and using and downloading content, that is a key part of your internet experience. So for WIA, you know, we look across a very wide ecosystem of companies. We try to include all of those companies, including all of the services companies and folks who are building and doing the actual day -to -day work of building, maintaining and operating all of that infrastructure. So your flagship event,

of the year is Connectivity Expo or as we like to call it ConnectX. And it's coming up, right, in May. May 14th through the 16th in Atlanta, Georgia, which is one of the great American cities. It's truly a hub of connectivity, very much like our show. It's going to be a really great city. You know, I don't know if there's a lot of cities that can match the energy of Atlanta, right? It's one of our great cities. It's got great.

culture and food and music. It's got the busiest airport in the world, which is, you know, convenient for getting folks to come into the show. And it's also a hub of telecom activity. I mean, there's a lot of telecom right in that city. So I think it's a really great location. We're really excited about it. You know, there are unparalleled opportunities for collaboration and knowledge exchange and information sharing. And I'm really excited because we're actually tracking double digit growth in attendees this year. Really?

Okay, so this is our biggest event of the year. And pretty much everybody that I know in telecom comes to this event. And so if you have not registered, you're listening to this podcast, go out there, registered and be there. It is gonna be awesome. Now, Patrick, is there, give us a little sneak peek into any initiatives that you'll be launching or maybe some of the themes that we're gonna hear about this year. Yeah, really excited about the show.

and all of the themes and all of the different things that we're gonna be talking about. Starting just with the folks who are gonna be speaking on the keynote stage, we'll have the CEO of US Cellular, the CEO of NextLink Internet. We'll have a panel on AI and telecom with folks from AWS and Qualcomm. We'll have a new session this year called View from the Network, which will be senior network leaders from AT &T, T -Mobile and DISH talking about their current networks and what they're planning for down the road, which I think will be really interesting.

Of course, we'll have our view from the top panel, which will have the CEOs of the top five infrastructure companies in America. So that in and of itself just gives you sort of a sense of the breadth of topics. That's just from the main stage, let alone, you know, seven different tracks focused on network evolution, you know, development of networks, spectrum issues, policy issues, the impact of AI, workforce development, which I know that you're passionate about.

So, you know, I think it's going to be a really great conference. We're seeing more of the service providers than we've ever seen at our show. And, you know, there's certainly plenty to talk about and it's going to be a really great event. So do you still have sponsorships or exhibit opportunities available as well? We certainly do. I agree with you and I encourage you and everybody that you know to register to attend the show.

But of course we do have some, not a lot, but some opportunities for sponsorship and for exhibitors. And if they're interested in learning more about that, they can go to connectivityexpo .com. Okay, wonderful. So let's talk more about how WIA supports the wireless industry. You mentioned just a few tidbits, but let's get into that deeper. And also any involvement or support on the broadband side. So at the end of the day, our job,

and this is what the WIA staff wakes up thinking about every day, is how do we create the best possible regulatory and business environment for our members to succeed? And the way we do that as a trade association is through federal and state advocacy. So we have an expert team of advocacy experts here in DC who are working with the FCC and the FAA and the administration and the Department of Commerce and Congress, a lot of work going on. We also have a...

very busy team that works in every state, looking at legislative issues that are important to our industry, promoting good ideas, fighting back against bad ones, which there are plenty of. So advocacy, number one. Number two, effective communications. We are focused very, we're very focused on promoting the work of our industry, promoting the work of our members, telling our industry story about what we do and why it matters. You know, what we like to think about is,

wireless deployment and broadband deployment, not just for the sake of broadband, but for the sake of what it enables, right? And our entire society depends on the infrastructure that WIA's members are deploying and operating every single day. Third is helping train and develop the next generation of the wireless workforce. And then fourth, I would say is like ConnectX, creating convening opportunities, bringing our members together with themselves, with other interested parties.

to talk about the issues that matter so that they can exchange information and learn from one another. So are there any additional benefits, let's say, that I can get as a member, a member company? I mean, even, let's say, support for workforce development or hiring, or I know we'll talk about in a minute a lot of your programs, but what are some other additional benefits of membership?

Yeah, so in addition to just benefiting from the day -to -day work that we do on advocacy and communications and everything else, of course, there are direct benefits, right, in terms of discounts to the show and discounts to our training and education center content, individual opportunities to promote the work that your company's doing through blogs and other communications efforts that we do. So there are definitely things that are, and getting involved in specific initiatives that are,

like our in -building forum, which we're going to be announcing soon, or our emerging wireless professionals group, or the Women's Wireless Leadership Forum. We have lots of different initiatives that are only available if you are a WIA member. And I think it's absolutely worth the price of admission. OK, so you mentioned WWLF. And I am very passionate about this organization. I have been a member and on the board for, oh my goodness, has it been five or six years now? So.

Can you talk a little bit about what is the Women's Wireless Leadership Forum and the connection to WIA? Absolutely. So WWLF is a membership section of WIA. It is an organization that is led by extremely talented women in our industry who are leaders, who are promoting what we do and the opportunities within the wireless and broadband infrastructure ecosystem to women.

promoting the importance of creating career paths and advancement opportunities for women in our industry. And there's a lot of ways that the organization does that through virtual and in -person events when we're coming together and learning from one another, right? And different convenings that we do throughout the year. We have a WWLF event coming up the first day. It's actually the Monday on the front end of ConnectX.

which is a focused event, which if you're gonna be at the ConnectX, you should come in a day early and check this event out because we're gonna have leaders from within WWLF and other speakers who are really great talking about career advancement opportunities within our industry. That's one event. We do an event here in DC in February called the Women's Wireless Leadership Luncheon where the leaders of WWLF and WIA plan an event with, what I love about the event in DC is we bring together,

the folks from our WIA member companies who are out there on the front lines doing the work every day with the folks in the DC side of the house from the carriers and the large infrastructure companies with public policy leaders in DC. And it's all about empowerment. It's all about a discussion with, and it's not just women, right? It's also about people who are supporting the growth of women in our industry. So that's just a couple of examples of some of the things that we're doing.

We just launched an initiative called the Telecom Trailblazers, which I love to talk about as well. Look, when I first started at WIA and I saw WWF, I realized what an important organization it is and I will do everything I can to support it. Thank you, Patrick. Thank you so much. So let's switch gears and talk about workforce development. Is there still a wireless workforce shortage? And if so, where are the gaps? So, you know,

The way I would answer that question is over what period of time and what area of the country and what job function. So certainly look, we all have to acknowledge that there's been a little bit of a pullback on carrier spend for wireless in the last 12 months or so. And I know that there are folks out there who are feeling that. And I talk to a lot of people every day about that.

what we do at WIAA and trying to create that business and regulatory environment for people to succeed, like I was talking about earlier, is very specifically so that we have an environment where we are building, we are deploying, and we are employing as many people as we possibly can. I understand that there's a challenging time for some. So is there a shortage? I don't know that I would say that there's a wireless shortage the same way that there was three years ago when we were on the front end of 5G deployment, but is there a shortage long -term? Yeah, I think there is.

I think if you look out at the future of wireless communications and the future of 5G and what comes next and the growth of in -building communications where we're with 5G private wireless networks continuing to emerge, I think that we do have a shortage. And I think it's one of the things that I'm very focused on is are we explaining the needs for this industry over the next five or 10 years? Are we reaching out and promoting the fact that there are amazing careers in our industry?

starting even at like the high school level, two -year schools and four -year schools, technical colleges, right? Saying, look, here are all the things that go into a wireless network, right? This smartphone that we all have in our hands doesn't just happen by accident. It happens because of a whole lot of different jobs that are out there. You wanna be in marketing and sales? Great. You wanna be in engineering? Great. You wanna be in network operations? Great. You wanna be outside?

doing things to actually physically deploy the networks, whether it's laying the fiber, whether you're a utility installer, aerial or underground, whether you're an RF engineer, whether you're a fiber splicer, whether you're a broadband technician, there's so many jobs. And we're trying to get fiber to every single home. Certainly the administration's focused on that. We're trying to get 5G wireless connectivity available to every single home and every single business.

there are plenty that still don't have that access. So is there a shortage? Yeah, if you look out over the horizon, there's definitely a shortage and we need to fill, make sure that we have a steady pool of employees ready to fill those jobs now and in the long term. So I know that WIA has some phenomenal programs for workforce development and that you're, you know, you really have a priority right now to develop the workforce of the future. And I agree with you on,

you know, one of our issues in this industry is that people and especially young kids even don't know about the industry, people, you know, looking at career changes and we just, it's, it's just a matter of having the knowledge that we are here and you're not just going to stumble into telecom or get into telecom by accident, which is what 90 % of my guests say when they talk about how they got there. Right. And I, and I hear you that that is very important that we, that we change that narrative, but.

Can you talk about the programs and initiatives on, at, you know, workforce development that WIA has right now? Yes. Let me preface it though with an example. WIA organized an event at Virginia State University, which is in Petersburg, Virginia, a couple hours from here. And we invited Commissioner Starks and Commissioner Carr from the FCC. And we had about 50 students, a mix of engineering and business students.

We had a day long event within the classroom and then some actual, we went out and saw a tower, which by the way was right next to a water tower, which also had some sites on it. So we had kind of a wireless 101 course with them and a spectrum and infrastructure 101 course with them. And it was all about just sort of raising awareness about our industry, right? And how it works and what the job opportunities are for engineers and business students. And at lunch, I asked the question,

How many of you want to have been considering a career in the wireless infrastructure or broadband industry? Not a single hand went up. So how many of you have thought about a career in the tech industry? Half of the class went up, right? And we had a good conversation after that with the commissioners about, well, look, there is no tech industry without broadband infrastructure, right?

And it was interesting. And then what really hit home for me later that day was we took the students out to see a tower. And at the end of it, one of the students came up to me and was effectively saying, this is really interesting. I didn't know this existed. I'd love to get an internship. Can you help me? Right. And I did try to help him and introduce him to a bunch of folks. So I say that only because I really do think it's incumbent upon us as an industry and WIA as an organization.

to really raise awareness about our industry and the jobs that are out there, but then take the next step, which is actually help train and develop the workers that we need. So that is what WIA is doing. One is through our apprenticeship program. It's called TIRAB, Telecommunications Industry Registered Apprenticeship Program. We are the national sponsor for telecommunications apprenticeship at the Department of Labor. At this point, we have 104 companies who've gone through the program or are participating.

4 ,500 plus apprentices have gone through and registered and at the end of it, you come out of it with a certificate that you are a telecom apprentice, 15 different occupations, everything from tower tech one, tower tech two, tower form and RF engineer, utility installer, you name it, right? Small cell technician, et cetera. And I think...

you know, earning while you learn that apprenticeship model is really effective. And I'm really excited about the work we're doing there. The other thing is our training and education center tech. That is our own training and education. We've got 35 plus courses at this point, everything from wireless 101 to a detailed multi -day site at courses. So we're doing our own training. And then last, and I'll just briefly say, we're working closely with a lot of states to help them identify how you bring academia, industry, and government together.

to identify where there may be gaps and then develop the training that's necessary in that area to get those networks built. Okay, so Patrick, on Tyrap, so how can companies find out more about how to get involved with Tyrap? Tyrap .org, so T -I -R -A -P .org, come check out the website. Okay, great. One of the things there too, by the way, is we actually have incentive funding, meaning if going through an apprenticeship,

process does require some work on the side of the company. We're there to help. And we're actually there to provide a little bit of incentive funding for those companies to get them engaged and help with some of their costs. Okay, great. Now, what about tech? Because that is a phenomenal program. And I've actually taken a course through tech myself, my team has so I encourage everyone to check this out. So how do we learn more about that? So that is tech hyphen online .org. So that's T

ec -online .org. Okay, very good. So let's keep going then. How, you talked a little bit more, a little bit about how to bring in new talent to telecom, right? And I know it's always, you know, thinking of the younger generation and high schools and, you know, to get that young talent in, but any, any other ideas that you have on bringing in new talent? What, maybe these are mid -level, mid -career,

changes, you know, people who just don't know about us or, you know, anything, anything different to bring in fresh talent. I've already talked about some of it. I mean, even even apprenticeship, right. So apprenticeship is great for somebody who's a new employee. Right. And so they're they're they're learning about their occupation, both within class training and with a mentor on the job. Right. But apprenticeship is actually great for somebody who's been in a job for 10, 15 years to.

because you say, okay, this is my job now, but what I'm really interested in is this occupation within my field. And your company might be willing to invest in that apprenticeship opportunity for you mid -career. That's one thing. So I wouldn't just think about apprenticeship as sort of for those who are new to the industry. Second is meaningful, intentional efforts to identify and raise awareness. So I mentioned the Telecom Trailblazers initiative earlier. It's new, we're just getting it off the ground, but the idea is, you know, working with WWOLF,

and showing young women, even at the high school level, what these careers are, what the career paths have looked like for people who've already done it is important. So we just did an event in the Bay Area where with some WWLF leaders, we brought several classes from local area high schools into the Verizon Innovation Lab in downtown San Francisco. And we were showing them how Verizon is designing and using its network in innovative ways. And it was a hands -on,

information rich experience for these girls who attended the session. And then we ended it with a panel of WWLF leaders. And there was a lot of good discussion back and forth. Now that's small scale. My hope is that we can turn that into a very more, a larger, more scalable effort to raise awareness more broadly. We're doing something in Ohio with incarcerated individuals. We just had one class where we're in middle of a second class where we're bringing some of that tech training, right?

to folks who are currently incarcerated who deserve a second chance. And they're learning about, you know, different careers in our industry, coming out of that with a certificate so that when they're, you know, released, they have an opportunity for going and learning more about the career. Pre -apprenticeship, we talked about apprenticeship, pre -apprenticeship as well, where we're working with high schools, technical schools, two -year colleges, where we're saying, look,

let's work with these institutions and provide them with information so that they can start training people locally. I don't think there's a single answer. I think what it is is we have to acknowledge that it's not just a job, it's a career. People who are CEOs of tower companies started way down the line within that company, right? It's such a career path opportunity, this industry. And so I don't know that there's a single thing. I think it's just trying to identify all the different things like some of the examples I mentioned and pushing it.

And you know, with leaders like yourself, also raising awareness about our industry and literally trying to help place people into these jobs once they find out about it. Right, right. So Patrick, you touched on this earlier, but I just wanted to get your thoughts. And it's about the challenges that we faced in the wireless industry, really in, you know, in 2023, a little bit in 2022 as well, but in 2023, and now 2024 seems like it's off to a slow start. What

you know, is this our new normal? What do you see in your wireless crystal ball for us for the rest of 2024 and maybe into 2025?

So I think you have to start by acknowledging reality, right? Wireless carriers spent $100 billion plus just to acquire the rights to use wireless spectrum, right? From millimeter wave and C -band and all these other spectrum bands that they have to pay for to get access. That's a lot of money, right? Then once they had access to that C -band spectrum, we had a lot of deployment, right? Certainly in the 2022 when all three major carriers were building out their networks, when you had DISH building out its network,

It was kind of a bonanza, right? It was the most capex we'd ever seen in a given year, was that year. As with every G in mobile wireless, you have your peaks and then once the carriers have paid for that spectrum and built out that network, they have to monetize the network, right? It's a very capital intensive industry. They need to be able to demonstrate that they're able to monetize the networks that they've spent so much time and energy and resources in building out.

That's just how our industry works, right? I think with 5G, you saw probably the biggest peak and you're seeing a little bit of a valley that's hard on some folks. That said, that's a pretty typical cycle, right? The new normal, I mean, we're still gonna see a massive amount of capex spent this year by the wireless industry. There's still gonna be a lot of business in this industry, right? And I do think that we're gonna start to see a pickup in deployment and a pickup in activity.

you know, roughly half of the towers still need to have a C band, you know, upgraded on those towers. Carriers are deploying three dot four or five gigahertz network. AT &T's announcement with Ericsson and their O -RAN deal, right? That's a whole lot of towers that are going to need to be upgraded with new radios, new equipment. I saw a stat the other day that said something along the lines of between this year and 2029, we will triple the amount of data that average consumers use.

So when we're demanding that much from our network, the carriers have to invest. They have to keep investing to keep up with that demand. And so is it going to happen today or next year? You know, look, I don't have a crystal ball to tell you exactly what every carrier is going to do. What I can tell you is they're going to have to keep investing and upgrading their networks to keep up with that demand. And there's no way they're going to let one carrier beat them, right? That's a very competitive industry. So as one carrier goes, you will see others continue to invest.

I also think there's no doubt in my mind that the impact of artificial intelligence on telecom will be significant, not just in the way that carriers use AI, right, to optimize the deployment and operations of their network, but also in the applications and services that consumers and enterprise start using and demanding in a way that will continue to, you know, require massive amounts of data, including,

higher capacity and lower latency closer to people at the edge of the network. So there'll be more there. And then there's the private wireless. I talked about private wireless briefly earlier, but if fixed wireless to the home was the first real 5G use case, I think you're gonna see a lot more private 5G networks in hospitals, in hotels, in stadiums, in universities, on campuses, et cetera.

all of which will just lead to the continued growth of our industry with a lot of opportunity. So I recognize the reality right now, but I also remain very optimistic about our future. I hear opportunity, opportunity, opportunity, and out of adversity, there's always opportunity. So that's in our future. And I agree with you and I love hearing it. And I cannot wait for ConnectX every year. It's just one of my, probably my favorite event of the whole year. So one more time.

Where can we learn more about ConnectX and also about WIA? So you can always learn more about WIA at wia .org. And for the show, you can look at connectivityexpo .com where you will find all the latest and greatest on all of our speakers and sessions and everything else. And I look forward to seeing you and everybody else at the show in Atlanta. Yes, Patrick. Thank you so much for coming on my show. This has been a pleasure and I'll see you very soon. Look forward to it. Take care.